tofferman86
L1 Scorpion - The Great Snowmobile
Posts: 7
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Post by tofferman86 on Jan 17, 2013 10:17:35 GMT -5
Hey guys, i just picked up a 73 super stinger 440. Doesn't run and needs work but got it as a project. I'm new to snowmobiles though and from research doesn't seem like a whole lot of info out there about these old sleds. These older ones take a gas oil mix right? What is the ratio supposed to be and what kind of oil is recommended? Currently i believe the motor has spark in one cylinder but my plan to start is to get new fuel lines, clean out the carb, and get new plugs and plug wires. A all of those things appear to be needed anyways.
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Post by admin on Jan 17, 2013 22:35:28 GMT -5
Hey guys, i just picked up a 73 super stinger 440. Doesn't run and needs work but got it as a project. I'm new to snowmobiles though and from research doesn't seem like a whole lot of info out there about these old sleds. These older ones take a gas oil mix right? What is the ratio supposed to be and what kind of oil is recommended? Currently i believe the motor has spark in one cylinder but my plan to start is to get new fuel lines, clean out the carb, and get new plugs and plug wires. A all of those things appear to be needed anyways. Welcome aboard tofferman86 Yes, your Scorpion would most likely take a gas/oil mix. The mix ratio can be commented on further by others here so don't take my word for it. I notice several manufacturers back in the day listed 20:1 as the mix ratio. However, let's see what the team here has to say about it today. I've read some theory that todays oil is better than in the 1970s and therefore a leaner oil to gas mixture can or should be used. Sounds like you are on the right track with your plan. Often times the old engine will start right up after completing what you plan to do. This might be a manual of interest to you, www.vintagesnow.com/Scorpion_files/1973_PM.pdfGood luck and let us know how you are doing.  |
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Post by pararailer on Jan 17, 2013 22:50:17 GMT -5
I run amsoil dominator synthetic at 40 to 1. I have heard this oil can run at 50 to1 in extreme high rpm race engines.
If you want to be safe and for an engine that you are not sure about, It cant hurt to mix it a little richer.
I used to use conventional 2 cycle oil at 20 to 1 and that worked fine too.
The gas you use is very important. If you have it in your area, use non oxygenated premium. This stuff doesnt contain any ethanol. I get mine at Mills Fleet farm gas stations. Ethanol gas is bad for small engines. I believe it can run too hot and burn them down.
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Post by admin on Jan 17, 2013 22:55:13 GMT -5
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Post by scorp11 on Jan 18, 2013 2:37:19 GMT -5
We run all our Cuyuna's at 40 to 1. Oil now is better, yes. The richest we run on anything is 32 to 1 on our old Johnsons and they were supposed to be 20 to 1. 20 to 1 would be pretty smokey. You'll find plenty of opinions on oil Premium no ethanol gas is the minimum I'd recommend. We actually run 100LL av gas mixed 50/50 with no lead premium. Oil may be better now, but gas is much worse. The biggest problem with ethanol is that it traps moisture. Last thing you want in a two stroke is moisture. Clean the Carb. Once you know it runs, re-seal / re-time the motor. |
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tofferman86
L1 Scorpion - The Great Snowmobile
Posts: 7
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Post by tofferman86 on Jan 20, 2013 11:20:25 GMT -5
How about spark plugs? Havent found what kind to get where would i find new ones? Also i notice it looks like there is what looks like an electric start option. Is this what it is? I dont see a battery, is there supposed to be one? This forum is turning out to be great for info. Im sure ill be on a lot asking lots of questions.
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Post by admin on Jan 20, 2013 14:28:21 GMT -5
Do you have a Rockwell JLO, CCW, or Sachs engine? Do you have a starter bolted to the engine and a battery tray somewhere? You will need a battery if you want to use that electric starter.  |
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tofferman86
L1 Scorpion - The Great Snowmobile
Posts: 7
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Post by tofferman86 on Jan 20, 2013 16:42:42 GMT -5
not sure what the starter would look like. and not seeing a battery tray at all. it is a Rockwell
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Post by admin on Jan 20, 2013 17:59:04 GMT -5
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Post by admin on Jan 20, 2013 18:00:50 GMT -5
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Post by admin on Jan 20, 2013 18:16:33 GMT -5
Here's an NGK spark plug guide I found,
Rockwell/JLO
428cc
2F440 (37 hp.) ’73-75
NGK B8ES spark plug
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435cc
LR440/2 (25-38 hp.) ’70-74
NGK AB7 spark plug
I suspect you have the 428cc but check to confirm. If that is the case you need two NGK B8ES spark plugs.
I found this stuff by Google search. You can get these plugs many places online or try your local auto parts store.
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tofferman86
L1 Scorpion - The Great Snowmobile
Posts: 7
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Post by tofferman86 on Feb 1, 2013 16:38:56 GMT -5
So only have spark on one side. Anyone know where the points are? And how hard are they to access
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Post by admin on Feb 1, 2013 19:37:38 GMT -5
So only have spark on one side. Anyone know where the points are? And how hard are they to access They should be behind the flywheel. Take the recoil off, take the fan pulley off, look at the flywheel. There might be a few slots in the flywheel that you can look inside it with a flashlight to see if you can see the two sets of points. If you can slide a small thin FINE file or "burnishing tool" in there, and carefully insert your file between each set of points one at a time and use the file to lightly resurface the points. This MIGHT save you the trouble of having to get a puller and pull the flywheel, which is probably not a big deal but will be interesting the first time. I don't recall if that flywheel has slots or windows in it so you can do this or if you will need to remove the flywheel. Of course the problem could be a condenser too. Before you do any of that though, try swapping your coils and see if the spark moves to the other cylinder or not. Make sure all your wires look like they are connected to the place they are supposed to be instead of some other place someone may have moved them to! Let us know how you make out! |
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tofferman86
L1 Scorpion - The Great Snowmobile
Posts: 7
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Post by tofferman86 on Feb 2, 2013 10:45:43 GMT -5
Excuse me if i sound stupid but i bought new spark plugs and i have been testing spark by just holding the plug while its plugged into the wire and pulling the cord, i get spark from one write but not the other. By switching which wire is plugged in to what coil that would just show if the wire was bad or if coil is bad then it won't work.
Also what is it that sits behind the carb? It appears that I will have to remove everything there to even get at the coils
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Post by admin on Feb 2, 2013 10:56:56 GMT -5
Excuse me if i sound stupid but i bought new spark plugs and i have been testing spark by just holding the plug while its plugged into the wire and pulling the cord, i get spark from one write but not the other. You must rest, or sometimes hold, the outside of the spark plug metal (the part where your wrench goes and the threaded area) against metal on the engine. Then pull the recoil and check for spark. Don't hold onto the spark plug itself because you could get a shock. If you need to hold the spark plug against the metal engine part to check spark, touch the rubber spark plug boot to hold it or use a tool or something to hold it to the engine. It is handy but not required to have two people so one can look for spark while the other pulls the recoil. |
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Post by admin on Feb 2, 2013 11:11:38 GMT -5
By switching which wire is plugged in to what coil that would just show if the wire was bad or if coil is bad then it won't work.
Also what is it that sits behind the carb? It appears that I will have to remove everything there to even get at the coils If you still do not have spark on both plugs after trying the above test, proceed as follows: I found this photo in the members photos section from scorp11. Do your coils and wires look like this? Click to enlarge,  If so, you will notice the brown wire from each coil is grounded to the coil bolt. The blue wire on each coil comes from a set of points. Unplug both blue wires and swap them to the opposite coil they are plugged into now. FIRST, mark them so you know where they were plugged in before you moved them! Report back with: Sitting on the sled, did you have spark on the left or right plug originally. After you swap the blue wires, do you have spark on the left or right plug. Good luck! |
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tofferman86
L1 Scorpion - The Great Snowmobile
Posts: 7
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Post by tofferman86 on Feb 4, 2013 0:09:04 GMT -5
thanks, for the input, that isn't the rockwell that i have mine has the slightly side spark plugs but that helps a lot for the look it looks very similar there is just a bracket or something that is covering up the coils on mine.
I will be giving this a try next weekend.
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Post by scorp11 on Feb 4, 2013 1:08:12 GMT -5
thanks, for the input, that isn't the rockwell that i have mine has the slightly side spark plugs but that helps a lot for the look it looks very similar there is just a bracket or something that is covering up the coils on mine. I will be giving this a try next weekend. Your rockwell is in effect the same motor for what you are trying to diagnose. The angle plug heads were used up til 78. What Admin is helping you do is diagnose if it is the coil causing the issue or something before that. It is easier to test the external stuff than what is under the flywheel |
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