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Post by 80sting440 on Jun 10, 2016 20:26:06 GMT -5
I thought it was an un touched low mileage engine? Good thing you took it apart, it would have burned down for sure. Do you still have snow up there? I wish we did have snow...it was 30 degrees c. or around 85 degrees f. today with high humidity...I hate the heat!
I agree, there sure is a lot of wear!!! Nothing indicated that it was untouched. I suppose with only 865 miles indicating on the speedo, one might assume, as I did. It started first pull and sounded fine, but...
That seal would have gotten chewed up in no time with those teeth marks munching away at it every single revolution. I'm glad that I changed my mind and went ahead with a rebuild. It's still no guarantee, but it should fair better providing that I seal it up right and follow your and the others' advice.
Rene
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Post by 75whip on Jun 10, 2016 20:41:41 GMT -5
Lol and i said f-it run it. You never know what the prevuous owner did thats for sure. Hey im glad you did take it apart before you ended up being "that guy" on a ride
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Post by 80sting440 on Jun 10, 2016 21:49:41 GMT -5
Lol and i said f-it run it. You never know what the prevuous owner did thats for sure. Hey im glad you did take it apart before you ended up being "that guy" on a ride I want to make it clear that I really don't believe that it was the last guy and even if he had done this, I'm fine with that.
He is a straight shooter and a good fellow.
He has quite a few Scorps and some of them need work.
I suspect from some of the things he's said that he bought this sled in need of tlc.
This machine has changed hands several times.
I'm sure that he reads this forum and he may even be a member. It's all good.
Back to you 75 whip...I know that you and two other guys advised me to "Just run it". That was good advice considering the info that I gave you. Yes, you never know what some of the previous owners have done. For me, this is getting to be a pleasurable hobby as it gives me purpose in my retired years.
I'm more concerned about my wife being "that gal" 'cus "that guy" didn't do his job right. She currently rides a 2016 Cat and is quite spoiled with all that new stuff and is quite taken with the whole riding experience. Her introduction to vintage riding should prove to be interesting. I'm hoping that she comes to understand my history with snowmobiling through vintage machines and riding. All she knows is groomed trails with all of the modern amenities. I also enjoy it and think it's great too.
I would like her to travel back in time with me and experience snowmobiling the way it was, not to stay stuck in the past, but rather, come for a visit once in a while.
(the future 80stingette440)
Rene
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Post by weverat on Jun 11, 2016 7:03:14 GMT -5
Cuyuna = Box of Chocolates
Rene, I know your thinking about the crank center seal. We can't find a replacement, they seam to be typical to Cuyuna only and obsolete. Unless maybe Zerkel has them. I remember Kube1 used 2 clutch side seals back to back.
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Post by obj1 on Jun 11, 2016 8:02:27 GMT -5
We also use 2 pto side seals back to back. Have been doing it for years.
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Post by 80sting440 on Jun 11, 2016 10:11:00 GMT -5
Thanks guys.
obj1...do you do your own crank work in your shop or do you send it out?
Two 30x62x6 seals back to back if required.
On my last project, replacing all the seals was a no brainer, as the crank had sat in two inches of sludge for twelve years. All bearings except for one con rod were shot.
On this Cuyuna, things are different. I don't need to replace any bearing except maybe the pto (yet to be determined) so I'll see.
The engine, to me, is the heart of a machine. There are plenty of things that can fail on an older snowmobile, I just don't want it needing C.P.R. at -35 in the middle of the boonies.
Rene
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Post by 75whip on Jun 11, 2016 17:20:13 GMT -5
Lol and i said f-it run it. You never know what the prevuous owner did thats for sure. Hey im glad you did take it apart before you ended up being "that guy" on a ride I want to make it clear that I really don't believe that it was the last guy and even if he had done this, I'm fine with that.
He is a straight shooter and a good fellow.
He has quite a few Scorps and some of them need work.
I suspect from some of the things he's said that he bought this sled in need of tlc.
This machine has changed hands several times.
I'm sure that he reads this forum and he may even be a member. It's all good.
Back to you 75 whip...I know that you and two other guys advised me to "Just run it". That was good advice considering the info that I gave you. Yes, you never know what some of the previous owners have done. For me, this is getting to be a pleasurable hobby as it gives me purpose in my retired years.
I'm more concerned about my wife being "that gal" 'cus "that guy" didn't do his job right. She currently rides a 2016 Cat and is quite spoiled with all that new stuff and is quite taken with the whole riding experience. Her introduction to vintage riding should prove to be interesting. I'm hoping that she comes to understand my history with snowmobiling through vintage machines and riding. All she knows is groomed trails with all of the modern amenities. I also enjoy it and think it's great too.
I would like her to travel back in time with me and experience snowmobiling the way it was, not to stay stuck in the past, but rather, come for a visit once in a while.
View Attachment (the future 80stingette440)
Rene
Amen brother!!!!
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Post by 80sting440 on Jun 11, 2016 20:58:30 GMT -5
Who needs a stinken' 30mm socket or even a torque wrench, for that matter!
To reinstall, reverse wrenches, turn 'till you start passing gas and you're there (or maybe that's just me?).
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Post by 80sting440 on Jun 12, 2016 13:18:02 GMT -5
I was able to remove the stationary clutch half and confirm my suspicions.
The pto bearing does have rust as seen in the picture.
The seal on the mag side was replaced but the pto side was left alone.
I'm guessing by how stubborn the clutch was to remove that this side was not serviced.
The mag seal is a replacement TNT product. The pto is an original NOK and is very worn.
I feel like Magnum P.I. ...
I broke down and spent $7.49 & taxes!
Rene
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Post by 80sting440 on Jun 12, 2016 14:11:00 GMT -5
Two tools I made to make things easier.
Clutch puller and circlip remover (pocket screwdriver with a slight curved tip).
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Post by kube1 on Jun 13, 2016 8:39:45 GMT -5
Good job
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Post by 80sting440 on Jun 13, 2016 16:13:59 GMT -5
Thanks
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Post by 80sting440 on Jun 14, 2016 15:19:52 GMT -5
Hey guys, I've got a question regarding sealing up the cylinder base to the crankcase. I can see why these engines are known to suck in air from this area. In the past I've only used a base gasket without sealant. I don't like how it makes a mess for the next rebuild. I'll use sealant with gasket if you guys find that it seals better, what do you say?
Thanks, Rene
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Post by weverat on Jun 14, 2016 19:50:53 GMT -5
I put them in dry, but sealer would be good.
I like to re-torque once a week for a couple months. Again the little 8MM studs only handle 18 ft pounds, any more and they stretch.
Obj will tell you how many base gaskets to use ! Usually they are about .019 each, but there are some big thick ones around too.
I think the airplane guys like the thick ones ( de-tune for reliability? )
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Post by obj1 on Jun 17, 2016 11:33:23 GMT -5
weverat, we just use blue rtv from the dollar store just like you said to do!
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Post by 80sting440 on Jun 20, 2016 7:54:57 GMT -5
I've decided to use the crankshaft as is with current centre seal and bearings.
After seeing how the crank was man handled on the mag side, I decided to check out how far out of spec it was.
The pto side was out by .003"...right at the limit.
The mag side was out by .0062" ... way out.
I'll attempt to bring it back to within .002"...
I'm no expert, but at the same time, I'm not afraid...is that normal?
Rene
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Post by obj1 on Jun 20, 2016 9:43:02 GMT -5
Weverat is right on the torque. we use the winderosa gaskets and tighten in 3 steps with the last to 18ft lbs. Then re-tighten again to 18 ft lbs at later date if possible.The base gaskets are a place we do see leaks when pressure testing quite often. We do not use sealer on these, however one could use a spray sealer like permatex hi-tack. very tough to get apart later though.I also remove all studs, thread chase, clean and install with thread sealant.
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Post by 80sting440 on Jun 20, 2016 18:21:14 GMT -5
Weverat is right on the torque. we use the winderosa gaskets and tighten in 3 steps with the last to 18ft lbs. Then re-tighten again to 18 ft lbs at later date if possible.The base gaskets are a place we do see leaks when pressure testing quite often. We do not use sealer on these, however one could use a spray sealer like permatex hi-tack. very tough to get apart later though.I also remove all studs, thread chase, clean and install with thread sealant. Thanks obj1.
I will follow your steps.
I do hate stuck on gaskets but also hate burn downs...hmmm...I'll decide later on gasket goo.
I agree on the hi tack vs. regular rtv, as the silicone is quite slippery and a gasket could slip out?
Rene
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Post by 80sting440 on Jun 20, 2016 18:34:21 GMT -5
I got both sides to well within spec at approx. .001" - .0015".
I went to purchase a 3 lb. brass hammer but balked at the price!
I was able to use my press along with a 22 oz. nylon hammer.
Today was a good day
Rene
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Post by weverat on Jun 22, 2016 7:59:46 GMT -5
From a 6 & 2 to a 1 & 1 1/2, great job.
Those darn cranks are tricky. Sometimes you give them a squeeze, pinch, or twist and they move in the wrong spot, causing my head to itch.
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